In this month’s Glamour Genevieve Field dives into the world of “plus” and she quotes the Editor of British Vogue in a letter to designers which included that the designers were forcing them to hire models with “jutting bones and no breast or hips”. In the meantime – when Glamour calls agencies for a new size 16 they are often told they do not have any because they do not have enough work for them. Instead Jennie Runk, a size 12 is quoted as saying “I’ll sometimes where padding”.
Cannot wait to hear your thoughts on this one!
Maddy
Editor, PLUS Model Magazine
About Editor-in-Chief, Madeline Figueroa-Jones
Madeline hails from a close-knit NYC family and started her plus size modeling career with a spread in BBW magazine. In early 2003 Figueroa was selected to appear as the spokes model for the "Hips, Heels & Curves" Fashion Show, continuing on to casting director for the Dangerous Curves 2003/2004 Tour. After appearing on several television segments including Aqui Y Ahora for Univision she began reaching out to the plus size community by serving as a moderator for VenusDivas.com, Empowerment Editor for AmaZeMagazine.com. Madeline and her husband Luke reside in the Battery Park city area of NY and operate lucaspictures.net.
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I use models with sizes ranging from 14-20. I thing plus models should actually be PLUS sized. Especially for web/catalog. How else do shoppers know how the clothes will actually look on their bodies?
At least a size 14/16. I’d think I died and went to heaven if I saw a 18/20. It’s bad enough we are delegated to the back of the bus otherwise known as catalog shopping, but please don’t make my imagination work too hard trying to figure out if something will fit.
I think it depends on the job. I’d love to see more size 16 & 18 models especially when it comes to selling clothes. With the average American woman being a size 14 at 5’4′ it’s hard to get an accurate portrayal of what clothes are going to look like on this person when they are being modeled by a size 12 5’9′ model.
Now I’m not saying all our model should be 5’4′ and a size 14 however having a larger size model would help a lot in determining if I’m going to buy that item or not.
Plus models should be just that-PLUS SIZE! I think it should matter more of talent of the model and how the clothing/outfit looks on her for her shape! The weight on the scale, or being a size 10-14 shouldn’t matter! The industry should use models that not only represent the line and or company well, but also women who fit in ALL their size ranges. For example, if a designer’s sizes are 12-28 throw in some size 24, 26, 28 models, etc and mix it up like that for a show r catalogue! As long as the model knows how to work it and wear the outfit well in the catalgue or on the runway, I think people will love it-real people, you know the actual buyers!
I find size 16 models all the time. Glamour must be calling the wrong agencies.
I am an aspiring plus-size model, and it’s frustrating for me when I see models labeled as “plus sized” when they just barely made the curvy club. I’m glad this industry is beginning to open its eyes to the real women of the world, but I still think we have a ways to go.
When we are viewing other plus brand marketing and magazines, my colleague often says, “She’s Plus size!?” Which tells you that she can’t believe how some smaller girls are considered plus size. I know in our company, we’ve set a standard base for 2x, which usually requires a model about 18/20 for our standards and at times even a 3x. And so far we’ve gotten lots of positive response on the models. In general, most are thanking us for showing a true plus size figure in our Plusologie brand of clothing.
I work in the fashion industry and yes, they refuse to use a size 16 but yet they will pad a size 10, 12. Personally I feel outraged, our money is good enough for them yet they are grossed out of using a woman my size. There are a handfull of very exceptional models size 16/18 out there but some companies and magazines just refuse to use them. And I can say first hand that IT DOES SELL WHEN COMPANIES USE A SIZE 16. It seems to be more of a personal thing from labels and magazines production people rather than FACTS.
Most so called plus size models now are all under size 12. A lot of agencies LIE about it. We get agencies pushing their models who are size 6, 8 than they do to their size 16′s. Consumers NEED TO VOICE THEIR FEELINGS.
I know first hand some companies pretend they dont hear it, but once we have a REAL SIZE 14/16/18 on the pages of magazines, they wont be able to ignore it.
My ultimate point is, dressing a size 8, 10 or 12 is no challenge. If you sell to PLUS SIZE WOMEN show how capable you are to DRESS MY CURVY SIZE 16.
The plus size industry to me is just as messed up than the straight size.
Enough is enough.
I think a plus size model should start at a size 10. Although industry says size 8 and you do have some curvy size 8′s. I want to see a woman that’s full all over, not just in certain places.
My thought is that with 70% of women being plus sized why is it that we are still only showing how clothes looks on the smaller plus sized female. There needs to be more variety. We all come in different shapes and sizes, every plus sized girl does not have an hourglass figure and is a size 14 or 16. I don’t have anything against my smaller curvy sisters, BUT one of the reasons I wanted to be a plus model was to see bigger size women modeling clothes confidently in ads, banners, internet and catalog. I want to get an idea of how something will look on me or will fit my body..my REAL body…no padding, just some shapewear underneath and a dose of curvy confidence. These young girls are looking at magazines and are wishing they looked like these gorgeous models….most of who are extremely thin. Then they show plus models who look great but stop on the smaller side sometimes forgetting that there are bigger young ladies and women who want to see how that fashion looks on someone their own size. I am very glad to see that we are making progress but also I would like to see more variety in the sizes of the models.
In this industry if you are larger than a size 6-8 this places you in the plus model category. I am currently a size 14, 5’11 and I weigh 190 +. Most people who see me in person or in photographs question if I am a plus size. So if a female is size 8-14 am I hearing that there is no place for he in the modeling world? Insanity is discriminating against 8-14 plus sizes just as it is pure insanity to ignore women who are 16-30. There is room for all shapes and sizes. It seems that designers need to expand their sample sizes.
Padding a size 10 to make her look like a 16??? REVOLTING!
Companies profit out of my pocket and my plus size body and yet they refuse to use a model my size. Its just wrong.
I understand that as models who are sizes 10, 12, 14 you’re going to defend your space, but Im a consumer and like thousands of others out there, I feel ignored and ultimately if all us stop shopping at plus size brands, than models are out of a job as well.
A size 10 or 12 does not shop at a plus size brand, therefore she shouldnt model for them either.
plus models should at least be a size 16. I am still not all that fond of height restrictions but I can see their place. A larger size that represents the average woman would be better all the way around.
“I’ll sometimes WHERE padding”. Is this spelling error the actual model’s mistake or PLUS MODEL mag?
Regardless of the spelling error – large models do NOT sell clothes. They do not. Plain and simple. Don’t believe me? Buy a range of clothes – size 12-24 and put them on eBay – and use size 12 models and size 24 models. Size 12 models to sell the sizes 20-22-24 and the size 24 models to sell the sizes 12-14-16-18. The clothes being modeled by the smaller women will sell first. I suggest eBay because anyone can do this – it doesn’t require a hundred thousand dollar + investment to start a clothing line or website and you get results pretty fast.
I am in the fashion industry and so are many of my best friends. When we get together, we talk about the plus consumer and that she doesn’t exist. Part of the problem is that women with 50 inch waists are walking around saying they are size 16 or 18. Anyone smaller than they are cannot possibly be plus size. They refuse to acknowledge they may be a size 24, 26, 28 or 30 and that a woman with a 36 inch waist is plus size!!!
Large women like to complain but they can’t back it up with their wallets. Where are the thriving celebrity plus lines? There are none. They’ve failed or are failing. Plus size women demand to see larger women but they don’t buy clothes at the same rate as our smaller sisters. Plus women wait around for fire-sales and end of season clearance. Until plus size women start spending money, it will be very hard for anyone to cater to them. All of this press is good for the plus size woman, but when designers realize there is no money in it, it will be back to size 8 and 10 padded models.
Of course I come across as bitter, but I am a solid size 20 with a 40 inch waist. I love seeing curvier women on tv and on magazine covers as much as the next person. But, I know the truth. I’m obese. It’s unhealthy. Not just because my BMI tells me, but I take blood pressure medication every day to remind me. Just like it is unhealthy to be a size 0 or 2 and 5’11″ like the standard models are, it is unhealthy to be a size 20 and 5’8″. Why should obesity be glamorized? There has to be a fine line of what is acceptable. A jiggly fat woman is just as unattractive to the general masses as is a woman who is skin and bones.
Size 8-10-12 and sometimes 14-16 women sell plus size clothing at the fastest rate. It is why they are used. Our brains are wired that way. We see a pretty woman looking great in an outfit and we want to buy it. If we see that same outfit on a morbidly obese woman, we are likely to consider our own flaws. That we hate our big arms. Or our thick legs or big behind. And we talk ourselves out of the purchase.
Really think about it from a business standpoint. If it were your hard earned money and your blood, sweat and tears, and your reputation on the line – would you be the one to risk the farm by putting up a model who is not in the size range known to sell clothes? At the end of the day, it’s about sales. Every fashion designer wants to jump on the bandwagon, but many have tried and failed. There are many lines that used to use larger models and have since changed to smaller ones. Ask them why and they will tell you it was a business decision. It’s nothing personal ladies, it all comes down to dollars and cents.
The Industry has always had ‘regular’-size clothing models wearing sizes 0-12. I believe ‘regular-size’ is a misnomer, because the AVERAGE woman wears a what.. 14 now? – probably always has. Historically plus-models began at size 14. Personally, I believe the ‘regular’ size scale needs to be changed to 0-16 and plus should be 18+. But industry professional models, which is a whole other subject apart from the clothing industry in itself and what average women wear and want to wear, need to be as they’ve been portrayed (though not enough of yet, and it’s way overdue), healthy, well-proportioned and ethnically/racially/age diverse, just like the ‘regular’ models.
14/16 and 18/20 are real plus models
Thank you for the feedback… as PLUS Model Magazine moves forward its important for us to know what our readers want to see and what they are thinking about the industry.
As this thread began to hit the virtual airwaves I received a few messages and phone calls from agency bookers and owners about the industry and the position they find themselves in. I will summarize it below:
” The plus size modeling industry has changed within the past 10 years and continues to do so. While the models are guilty of being padded, we have the obligation of having models that meet the clients requirements. We don’t pad the models or ask for the models to be padded – our job is to satisfy the client and if the clothing companies were asking for size 16, 18 and 20′s we would gladly sign those models to the agency. I know it seems like we are all pointing at each other but the only way things will change is if we make a collective effort to make the change to include larger sample sizes”.
I can tell you that its very difficult for me as an editor to include larger models for this very same reason. The clothing samples are almost always on the smaller side of plus and does not give me much room to work with. So I can understand their frustration as people are pointing the finger at them for not hiring larger models.
When it comes to health and obesity. This is another subject altogether. I agree that there are over weight people that are not healthy and are sick due to their eating habits and lack of physical activity but in no way do I believe this is true for everyone. I was told by many people that I would develop high blood pressure and diabetes during my pregnancy and at 35 years of age and a size 20 I had a wonderful pregnancy. I did not have any health issues at all and delivered a very healthy baby while only gaining 25 pounds. I disclose all this because I think that health is like religion a very personal thing and to categorize all of us as unhealthy is not factual.
Well said Maddy! The industry has and is changing for the better! And thanks for pointing out that “sample sized” clothing do come on the smaller end of plus. I would like to just add generally to everyone that obesity does NOT kill you; it can however make you more prone to things that can be detrimental, depending on how you take care of yourself overall! I think people forget that and the stigma to being overweight is that you are unhealthy, which is not always the case. I am glad you had a wonderful pregnancy and healthy baby! Congrats!
LT, please educate yourself. Obesity is one thing – an individual with a BMI rating over 30. It does NOT mean that individual is unhealthy or unattractive. It dose NOT mean that individual eats too much and does not exercise. Obesity is a clinical term, not a disease.
I’m sorry you have such a poor attitude about your body, but don’t take it out on the rest of us.
@LT
Let me educate you to a few facts instead of the so called industry myths you have spouted.
Plus size women do indeed buy clothes like their non plus sized sisters. Perhaps one of the biggest issues is the lack of brick and mortar stores. It’s exhausting to have to look in a catalog to shop, guessing as to fit/quality/materials, ordering 2 different sizing and returning items with no reimbursement.
I don’t think it’s unfair to want a fair representation of products when I am spending my money.
I am a size 22/24 it would be nice to see a plus size model around my size(thinking about being one myself) because that way I can see how the clothes fit on my body. I have wide hips and thighs and if I see a model my size wearing the outit I would buy the outfil without a doubt. I do agree that I am getting a little tired of seeing women labeld “plus size’ and they are not, it’s like playing a joke on us or somthing, fooling us into thinking this is plus size when it is not. I think the fashion world has such a bias toward plus size woman they themselves do not know what plus size is. I do want to give a shout out fo IGIG.com they have models more my type(and more ) and I love that on line store. but more work needs to be done.
This is an excellent depiction of why we need to make a change in the way in which we are seen. Plus size women, all shapes and sizes need to stand up and say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
Padding? That’s just pathetic! Most people in the industry have no clue how to market to us, let alone know how to select adequate clothing for the stores that they represent. Horizontal stripes? Yeah right! 1950′s print on shirts? No way! What ever happened to the classic business attire that we are in so much need of?
I would love to find a shop that offers classic colors to mix and match! None of us are a “perfect size”. We need to be able to buy one size for a jacket and another size for the pants in order to make it look and fit right, why do manufacturers insist on creating suits that just won’t work? And they wonder why they don’t make money. It’s so simple that they just overlook it. But to me, it’s common sense.
Amazing opportunity here for someone with money! Think about it; when was the last time you were able to go into a store and buy one suit and have it fit perfectly? Or at least near perfect?
We need and want to be able to have choices in the clothes that we wear and we need to have people show us what is out there.
Agencies and retailers need to go out and search for plus size models of all ages, sizes and skin color; double chin and all! If my bottom half is larger than my upper half, I want to see the clothes on a model that represents me. It should be the same if the upper half of the body is larger than the lower half. Show us the real thing, show us how it works, and we WILL buy it!
In retail stores, on the racks, the size usually goes up to an 18. Size 20 and above is found in the “Womens Section”. Plus size models should start at a size 20. There really isn’t a large population of plus size women that fit into the “tall” category, so the model should be between 5’2″ and 5’8″. That would be a true representation of the American plus size woman.
The plus size model needs to be able to communicate confidence in her stance and energetic flirtation through the eyes. The clothing must be made to fit whatever size that model happens to be; even if she happens to have a little bit of a double chin; so what! Most Americans do. Why not depict what we really are?
I want to see the real deal; not some distorted overly padded model with a thin face.
We are under represented and it’s time that someone take hold of the bar and raise it. Society must change its way of thinking!
Pamela Dyckhoff you bring up some very good points. This summer in the brick and mortar stores all that was offered were black/brown/blue pants and 99% of them were crop pants. I want regular pants and white or tan linen would have been nice. I received the Lsne Bryant catalog today and was positively giddy at the sight of women with hips and thigh. Ironically enough I doubt anyone eas bigger than a 14/16.
At least a size 14/16 but I think 18/20 is perfect, even 22/24 especially if they are 5’8″ and taller. Not only is plus modeling to raise awareness of the beauty plus girls have, its to cater to the masses, show what normal is, what it would look like in high fashion catalogs. Plus Modeling is all about true beauty, not the 1% of girls main-stream fashion has deemed ‘attractive’.
I like seeing clothes on someone who is actually plus size. When I see clothes on a bigger model, I know how they will flatter my body opposed to on a skinny girl…..
Just Sayin’…..
I think a plus size model should be anyone from a size 14 to at least a 28. Whose to say a woman at a size 28 or bigger shouldn’t be a model Big IS Beautiful! Even if not to anyone else…if they dont like it then dont look at it. A woman who is bigger than a 14 should be able to look at a plus size model and see herself in that outfit.
Maddy,
While re-reading the blog comments I came across yours again. When you stated
“…health is like religion a very personal thing and to categorize all of us as unhealthy is not factual”.
Ironically your statement hit it right on the nail! It IS a personal thing, AND, we ARE categorized / stereotyped. There are so many cliche’s that would fit here but I will not waste the space on mentioning them. I’m sure each of us can come up with a few of our own.
I understand that in this business, the “client” may want a size 12 or 14 and you must fulfill that need in order to bring in money to support the business.
As a pilot / test, can one page be dedicated to the “True plus size woman”? You would need to find a designer and manufacturer (New designers wouldn’t be able to afford a full one page spread…don’t have a heart attack here…offer it to them for free if they have the right clothes…the cost would be an investment to your research; if done correctly, you would be leading the industry and it could attract even more sponsors to you and the magazine)…and then find the models; but how sweet of pilot program would it be to have a size 22/24 and 26/28 on one page showing us something new and exciting? (One model should be in her mid 40s and the other in her mid 20s…classic powerful business attire (confidence)for the older woman and trendy, flattering urban attire for the younger model (fun, flirty, confidence).
The models and photographer should also do the spread for free as part of the pilot. They get the job and publicity and you get what you want. My daughter, a plus size model and makeup artist, would gladly participate. She is a plus size model, size 26/28 and she is always looking for the “right fit”. We are even thinking about making our own clothing line because we are tired of just “settling” for clothes that are passable in fit and attractiveness.
A question to the rest of the readers; when was the last time you got excited when you went on a shopping spree for clothes and accessories? Were you able to just walk in, look around and quickly find 10-15 pieces that were exactly what you were looking for, AND it fit you perfectly? Including the bangle bracelets for accessories. (Anyway, I digress…back to the feature page idea…)
Maybe the headline can be something like “Up and coming designer tailored made to the real plus size woman” and then have a comments section or survey for the readers (surveymonekycom) to express their thoughts on the models, the clothes, and their thoughts on having larger models represented. Maybe one of the questions could be “How much would you be willing to pay for this outfit if it fit you perfectly?” I think the “client” would be pleasantly surprised with the answer!
I’m sure all of us following this blog would reach out to our acquaintances and friends to complete the survey; ensuring that there are more than enough responses needed to provide real data. You could then use the results as proof of the research that plus size models do work and it sends out the right message to the real American Plus Size model.
This research could be shown to clients diplomatically so as not to offend, at least you would be the one planting the seed of thought in their mind that they may begin to consider using larger models.
Have the page and researching sitting on the table, politely excuse yourself for about 3 minutes, and let the client look through the information while he or she is waiting for you. That’s one way to present the information and they may be intrigued enough to read more of it and then begin to ask questions. That could be the door opener for you to further discuss the issue.
Just a thought, thanks for considering my suggestion,
Respectfully,
Pamela
I too am in the fashion industry. I am a full time plus fit model( A size 18/ 20 depending on the clients specs) ..I am 5’6 and 225-230 lbs. In fitting the garments …most clients are eager to get a real fit for a real woman .
That being said THERE ARE samples available to fit plus models for the photo shoots if it is a true plus article/ fashion piece etc. THe fact is that most times they are intentionally selecting a size 14 or 16 model to show the clothes in the most visually appealing way. In my personal opinion I wish that they would pepper in different sizes. I feel that anything under a 14 is not really plus. Having been on the smaller end…you can shop in most stores up to a 14 and some a 16. My experiences as a plus girl/woman and feeling the plus struggles of clothes shopping doesnt start until 18. The selection starts to narrow there and thats what I want to see when I look at plus articles/ pictorials …tell me/show me what your garment or vision really means on a solid plus woman!
I welcome and congratulate Glamour for the spotlight on plus and encourage all those consumers who were excited by it to continue feedback…it’s the only way to
change how things are currently operating.
Healthy and Happily Curvy
Susan
I think that if they’re going to be labeled as “plus size”, they should be PLUS SIZE! Size 12 is not plus size it’s just a little bigger than “average”. I guess models that are plus size should be at least a size 16.
I think plus sized models should be at least an 18/20. It is funny how the plus sized model has been fighting to make his/her mark in the fashion world yet more and more store like Ashley Stewart and even Torrid have reverted back to showcasing the smaller “plus” sized model. When I look at catalog, I want to see a woman who looks like me. Not someone who is a size 12. Lets face it…if the size 12 model dropped 1 dreess sized, she wouldn’t even be considered standard for the plus industry…so I ask, why even showcase her in the plus sized world as the standard!
Hello everyone!
Thank you for the amazing feedback… I’m so thankful that you have chosen to use your “voice” to let us know what you want to see.
Once we began to see the feedback that we were getting PLUS decided to again push the envelope and we have already started to put things in motion in order to feature plus size women size 18 and above which we will call our “18PLUS” models.
I’m personally going to challenge all aspiring models size “18 PLUS” to research the industry and prepare themselves. It’s sad to say but most submissions from models sizes 18 and above are overly sexy and not appropriate for the modeling industry. I want to see the models that are ready, that are not just shooting in jeans and t-shirts with a fierce face. I want to see slacks, colorful tops, dresses, great styling and smiles. If you are serious about your career and about being the women that will change this industry then you will have to come prepared from head to toe.
We are a magazine and therefore we cannot groom models personally but we can give you the information you need and the platform where you will shine.
What do I look for when I’m choosing a model for an editorial? Does the model know how to connect with the camera? Does she know how to move? Where are her hands- are they always on her hips? Can she change her facial expressions? Has she been testing with photogrpahers?
This is important for me to know because I will then know that you know the basics of modeling – you will know what a models bag is, will know to be punctual and to come prepared for a full day of shooting and in turn give us images that we will be able to use.
So ladies – let everyone know that PLUS will be reaching out to the 18PLUS models.
Maddy
In my opinion, if you’re not @ least a size 12+, then you are not plus size – AND if you are a tall woman then the plus model should start @ 14, if you are super short than size 10 could possibly count as plus size. A woman’s height DOES determine if you are considered a plus model to me. WHY? – If you are 6′ and size 10 then you really look size 6/8 – THIN. It’s a shame that as an aspiring plus model myself, I am stamped as just a FIT MODEL due to my size 18/20. Rarely does a designer take a chance on plus models my size, and usually they are NEW designers and not Brand Names – you will NEVER find a size 16+ model in Lane Bryant even though their most sold sizes are 18/20 – CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT??? Thank God for those that take “chances” on larger plus models like myself, but rarely are they paying gigs. So in order for me to have fun and profit at the same time as a Plus Model, I’d have to be a size 9-14, and even 14 is pushing it.
@Rebeca
First off, Rebeca, I have seen your photos and you are a beautiful model!
And you make a very valid point. When I was a size 18, not all too long ago, I was generally regarded as primarily a fit model, and most castings I was sent to were just that, and getting a (paying) print job was not that easy. It took losing a great deal of weight and getting down to a size 12/14 to get a big client and a great paying gig. That is true. I do more print now than anything else, but do not get me wrong, I like the consistency of fit work. Even though I am only a part time model, I did feel pressure to come down in size or risk not working at all.
And what Maddy pointed out earlier I do find to be very true in many (not all) cases. I see many larger sized aspiring models going about in all the wrong ways. Too much cleavage, too many booty shots, etc. and not enough commercially viable fashion shots. Proving you can be a sexy big girl is all well and good, but not the right way to attempt to break into the industry. And I know from personal experience, when you have alot to show it can be hard to keep it all in place, lol, but seriously, take a look at the work of agency plus models and see what they are doing and attempt to emulate that.
Looking forward to seeing the 18PLUS models out there!!!!!
Rebeca Torres I agree with your statment 100% and I could not have said it better myself. I also want to say thank you Maddy for being the first to take the first role in opeing the door to 18 plus I would love to see that. Thank you also for the advice on modeling and what pictures to send it I will take that advice to heart.
i think the statement that larger plus size women dont spend money is absolute crap. check your data please. and be it clearance or not – money is money. larger plus women aren’t walking around naked so they’re wearing something. honestly there is room for all size models but as maddy said they got to be on the same professional level as the smaller models.
I believe plus size should be 14+.
While 12 is rather small and 14 is just about right…